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William G. Vicars, Ph.D.
MCSE, MCT, MCP+I, A+, Network+, EdNet
|Opening "Chat Log Session 5"
Lii: Hi, DrV!:)
DrVicars: Hi, how are you?
Tigie: I'm fine thanks, and you
DrVicars: Great thanks.
Lii: I'm doing great, thanks!
DrVicars: So, where are you two from?
Tigie: I'm in San Francisco. This has been an unusually busy week for me.
DrVicars: Such diversity. What lines of work?
Tigie: I work with retarded children, some with other disabilities too
Lii: I'm disabled with a neuromuscular disease, so I don't work outside the home.
DrVicars: Gotcha. What time do you have?
DrVicars: Okay looks like we are ready to get started.
Tigie: I'm finding it difficult to memorize this stuff w/out someone to practice
Lii: I volunteer at my sister's elementary school and her class is trying to learn sign
so we can
DrVicars: Good idea. Also have you checked into any of the local deaf clubs? Some
of the high
Tigie: I don't know of any here in SF.
Sandy: Would the clubs be listed in a phone book?
DrVicars: Sometimes they are, or you could contact the National Association of the Deaf
[Note: Last I checked, the National Association of the Deaf address is: 814
Thayer Ave Silver
DrVicars: If you will email me during the week, I will look up the SF club, or at least
Tigie: Thanks alot, I will :-)
DrVicars: I just found a phone number for GLAD
DrVicars: (213) 383-2220 That number is a few years old but you can give it a
try. It is for
Tigie: I'll call them but LA is an 8 hour ride from here.
DrVicars: They have outreach programs. I used to work for the one in Orange County as a
DrVicars: Okay welcome to class all of you. Let's discuss indexing, personal
DrVicars: First off, indexing: It is when you point your index at a person
who is or isn't in the
DrVicars: If the person is there, you can just point at him to mean "HE"
DrVicars: If the person is not there, if you have identified him by spelling his name
or some other
DrVicars: Need clarification on that ?
Sandy: While we're speaking of identifying, how are "namesigns" established?
DrVicars: Namesigns are somewhat like "Indian names." You know
the movie, "Dances with
DrVicars: The hero in the movie got that name because he was playing around in a field
Tigie: My nickname is the sign for tiger.
DrVicars: Do they initialize it with a "T"?
Tigie: No, two "whiskers" or claws on the each side of the face
Sandy: ok, that explains why a co-worker refers to his army buddy with a salute while
DrVicars: Right it is a good system but localized. You can't just go anywhere and
sign a name
That is how ASL often works in general. Hearing people may occasionally influence
One last thought on this is that your standards of culture don't apply here. Deaf
This would be rude in hearing culture but to the deaf it is obvious and
effective. Don't think they
DrVicars: Now lets talk about personal pronouns.
The simplest way is to just point. If I am talking to you and want to say
"YOU" then I point. To
DrVicars: Of course if the people are present then you can simply point to them.
Art: Does the sweep dip?
DrVicars: It stays on a horizontal plane most of the time. If I am talking about
a group that is
DrVicars: Okay now let's see how this all ties into the principle of "directionality."
Suppose I index BOB on my right and FRED on my left. Then I sign
"GIVE-TO" from near
If I sign GIVE TO starting the movement from the place off to the right and
move it to the left it
Sandy: "Fred give to me?"
Sandy: How do you establish tense at that point?
DrVicars: Tense would be established before signing the rest of the sentence. I
Lii: Can tense be done at end of sentence, or is that confusing?
DrVicars: That is confusing--I don't recommend it. I can however give you an example of
DrVicars: That sentence talks about a situation that happened before now, but the
DrVicars: You can directionalize many different verbs. Hand-to is the best
For example ME-MEET-YOU can be done in one motion. I don't need to sign
Monica: How do we know which verbs to use?
DrVicars: That is the hard part. Some just aren't directional in nature.
For example: "WANT."
DrVicars: But if you are in doubt about whether or not to use indexing or
Art: Could you give examples for sweep, chop, and inward sweep diagrams used in [the
[Note, Dr. Vicars uses BSC as one of the texts in one of his classes. He uses
many other texts
DrVicars: Sure. The sweep would be to pluralize a sign like THEY.
DrVicars: The chop I'm not sure what you're referring to is it ...
[Clarification was made. The diagram in question is in the Basic Sign
Art: Yes, the center at the bottom
DrVicars: Hold...okay...got it. You are talking about the three diagrams
below the slightly
DrVicars: Good...we're making progress... If I were handing a paper to a number of
If I were talking about passing a piece of paper to the class in general I would
use the lower left
DrVicars: Okay homework for next week
DrVicars: Check out: Classifiers, Initialization, Terminology and the concept
areas of Feelings
DrVicars: Then we will discuss them more next week
DrVicars: Any questions?
Sandy: Can you clarify nice/clean vs. excuse?
DrVicars: Nice and Clean are pretty much the same sign just used in different
Sandy: no, I think as I practice it'll come...thanks :-)
Lii: Can the same sign be used for pants and slacks. I've seen two different
signs for pants and
DrVicars: Yes, but if the deaf in your area feel strongly about it, by all means sign it their way.
Lii: OK, thanks.
DrVicars: If I want to say slacks, I will sign "NICE" or "FANCY"
before or after signing
Sandy: I was just smiling because I am amazed how iconic and straightforward this is --
DrVicars: Right San.
Crazy: I am not sure about signing the colors
DrVicars: Okay let's talk about colors, Crazy are there any particular questions you
have or just
Crazy: When signing the colors, does my palm face me or other people? Do I shake
it left and
DrVicars: Most of the colors (the ones that shake or twist: BLUE, GREEN, PURPLE,
But remember, orange, brown, red and a few others are on the face.
Crazy: okay , thanx
Tigie: Certain letters, like "d" face the speaker to look like a "d" right?
DrVicars: Most of the letters somewhat face the receiver (at a comfortable 45 degree
Let's take the letter d for example, if I were signing to you the tips of my fingers
would point a
Tigie: Oh, I thought the index finger was facing me.
[The tip of the index finger points upward, the palm points mostly forward.]
DrVicars: The exception is for the "g" and "h" letters--he palm is
slightly back toward the signer
Tigie: thanks, I was confused
Lii: Fingerspelling seems a whole lot less... (I can't think of the word)...
"cumbersome" in the
DrVicars: Sure, just remember my main rule: "If it hurts, don't do it!"
DrVicars: The deaf won't sign something in a painful way
Tigie: I saw a sign interpreter Sat. she didn't use exact english, but ASL. Is that common?
DrVicars: Sure, lots of variations. Respect it all.
Tigie: I could understand a little tiny bit:-)
DrVicars: I personally sign somewhere between Pidgin and ASL for most of my
Lii: Can you leave out words like "it" "so" "the", etc. when signing?
DrVicars: I prefer to leave them out. They don't help convey the message.
DrVicars: "it"can be done as an indexed motion, (pointing at the
"it"), but "A, AN, THE, and
DrVicars: The functions they serve are "still expressed" but in a different
form, (head-nods, body
Lii: Good! That helps a lot, because it's easier to get the point across without them.
DrVicars: For example, with the "head-nod," I can say, "I am a
teacher" by signing "ME
DrVicars: Okay anything else before I wrap up? Any suggestions to improve the
Sandy: I'm amazed how much we can get across just by being in this chat room.
Tigie: I think it's great-I wanna take the next one too-when will it start?
DrVicars: Okay then looks like we've come to the end of a successful session, I will
see you all
Crazy: great class , many thanx
Sandy: Thanks again for the homework you do to get this all across to us :-)
Kelly: thanks - bye
Monica: Thanks, you really helped me with directionality tonight. It was confusing. :-D
Daniel: Good night all.
DrVicars: You're welcome. Bye for those of you who are content. I'll stay
and chat for a bit
Lii: Thanks, Bill, for offering this course. You have a super week. The rest of you, too.
Decca: Thanks for all your help. Good night
Closing "Chat Log #5"